It’s late, so I’ll just make a couple of very broad observations to get the conversation started. I thought the debate was very close. I suspect that who you liked going in is the guy you liked 90 minutes later. That was probably good news for Obama since foreign policy is McCain’s strength.
Neither man seems to really know much about economics, and that portion of the debate was superficial, with both candidates playing it safe.
Once it moved to foreign policy they both gained confidence, and my overwhelming impression was that both men displayed sophisticated knowledge and had nuanced positions on all the major issues. Again, who you liked going in was probably the winner in your mind on these topics, but perhaps I’m wrong. Tell us what you think.
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I was worried for McCain going into this debate. On 60 Minuets this past Sunday, he appeared weak, inarticulate and awkward. However I thought McCain spoke from a position of strength this evening and displayed considerable experience. Obama on the other hand sounded as if he went into Walmart and purchased a can of generic political speech. Furthermore, Obama dodged questions and must have said, "Senator McCain is right" 10-12 times. McCain seemed to head off Obama at each pass forcing him into a very defensive posture.
I thought that Obama was ahead on the economy but McCain won the foreign policy debate. Overall it was extremely close but McCain may have had a slight edge. They both had difficulty with the economy questions. Perhaps it was deliberate, not wanting to stake out a position that they would have to defend later. I admire both of them for performing so well under the intense scrutiny. Both candidates probably met their objectives. Next weeks VP debate should be a real high wire act. Palin does not appear comfortable in her interviews and Biden can not stop sticking his foot in his mouth.
Disappointed.
McCain’s continued condescension started to become tiresome.
George Bush Sr. used the bear, Jr. used the wolf. What dangerous animal will McCain use in his campaign ads as a symbol to live in fear & hate,the snake? The lesson that my war heroes learned was that the gun is the last option. McCain is just another military/industy spokesman looking for the next fight. I'm comfortable with this country recognizing and talking to all nations. I want to feel better,not the same.
I missed all but the last few minutes. I saw McCain badgering Obama for not going with the surge and Obama explaining that America's focus on Iraq is myopic. I saw McCain personally going on the offensive standing on his prisoner of war soapbox claiming Obama wasn't fit to lead. My take was that if you liked someone who personally intimidates, McCain is your pick. Obama handled himself well, showing depth of understanding.
My overall impression: unchanged. McCain comes across as a guy with a hammer looking for proud nails. Obama appears to have deeper understanding of issues and direction.
The scary thing is that a charismatic person with less to offer could have risen to the top and delivered the KO on these guys. The undecided middle are still ripe for picking.
And this.
I am thinking that Obama might have picked up a few votes among those who have never actually listened and watched him, only having heard the sleaze. He appeared presidential. McCain was already a known quantity to all after so many years.
How about the fact that Obama wore a flag pin on his lapel and
McCain did not? Will the republic survive this seismic shift in meaningless symbolism, and why did the pundit say nothing? A Fox News conspiracy of some kind perhaps?
I'd still feel much safer with McCain as Commander-in-Chief, but I'd rather have Obama as Sec. of State.
It was interesting and illuminating as well. Neither said too much about the economy but I don't know where McCain came up with we give $700 billions to countries that don't like us in the context of the impact of the bailout on the government.
I think we have less than $40 billion in foreign aid in total. McCain made it sound like that if we just cut that $700 billion then we would not have a problem. He may have meant that the country spends $700 billion in foreign oil, but that would have nothing to do with the impact of the bailout on government spending.
McCain hammered over and over that Obama was against the surge and scored points. I believe that if you believe in the foreign policy approach of the last 8 years then McCain is the guy. He didn't seem to offer a different approach to what we are doing now.
This night didn't change any minds for sure. But they rarely do. What they are meant to do is give the 10% of the electorate that, for some unknown reason, are undecided a vision of the candidates that will help them figure out who their for.
McCain certainly was more conversant on the specifics of world geography and his undying devotion to David Petraeus. (Did anybody else think it was a bit wierd that he mentioned this guy about 100 times?) He mentioned that in 1983 he voted to not send the marines in Lebanon that were eventually blown up by a truck bomb. Trouble is, the truck bomb went off in 1982. He voted against something entirely different. That (and a few other minor things) he had command of the subject matter but appeared angry, dismissive, and for some reason appeared to hate Obama.
Obama did what he needed to do. Stand toe to toe with McCain and demonstrate that he knew the subject matter and had a thoughtful vision for the future. He could have been more pugnacious but that's a pretty fine line he has to walk.
The CBS polling of uncommitted voters showed that Obama won the debate by a pretty large margin. I think this is because people don't want to have to vote for a Republican and want to feel comfortable voting for Obama. I think, and the polling showed, that he did that.
This can change dramatically in the next few days as discussion of the debate is processed.
I did hear McCain criticizing Obama for not supporting drilling for oil. So I assume Obama did not explain the fallacy of drilling for oil in that oil is a commodity and the value is only a percentage of the total on the world's market. That supplying 2% of the world's total won't bring down the price. I wonder why no one is trying to educate the American people of the myth.
I agree that the candidates did what they had to do. I suspect Obama will begin to pull away in the polls. McCain was talking about the 700 billion dollars we spend each year on foreign oil not foreign aid. He also talked about drilling for oil as a bridge to alternative energy and I do not think you can argue with that approach except it is 10 years too late (blocked in Congress). Kissinger released a statement today completely contradicting Obama's assertion that Kissinger agreed with Obama's approval for unconditional talks with Iran's leader. That is a tremendous gaffe on Obama's part-- reminds me of Senator Benson's remark to Quayle. "Henry Kissinger is a friend of mine (35 years), you are no Henry Kissinger." We see what we want to see, the facts speak for themselves. McCain back to work in Washington, Obama on the campaign trail in NC and Va.
Now the spinning begins. Whichever candidate is said to have won the debate may not be the one America thinks came off best in a few days' time after the party attack machines have done their work.
Al Gore was initially judged to have won his debate against Bush until the GOP drew attention to his impatient sighing and incessant eye rolling.
What will the Dems do with McCain’s scowls, smirk, squints, and facial tics-- plus his refusal to even look Obama in the eye!?!
Woody, if you agree that oil is a commodity traded on the world's markets and the price is set that way, why would you think offshore American wells will produce anymore than a few percent of the world's total production? How would that drive down the price of a barrel of oil? The oil produced is not earmarked for America. To think otherwise would be socialism. All that it could possibly do would be to ensure a limited supply for a limited time if the US could not import any foreign oil. Please explain to me how offshore drilling could drive down the price at the pump if you have another scenario.
Regarding Henry Kissinger. The man has been wrong on policy more than he has been right. He has been the cause of much misery among innocents. He is a self-serving duplicitous demagogue. Even the atheist that I am, I am sure there is a special place in hell for him.
"I'd still feel much safer with McCain as Commander-in-Chief, but I'd rather have Obama as Sec. of State." d'blank
D, I think you'v got it but dont realize it. Internationally,if the President is the worlds image of Us, I want that image to be of a diplomat,not a gun slinger. We have the guns & we will never be shy to use them, no matter who is the President. Does it really create a "safer" world when one of the guys in the conversation is always showing off his gun collection?
In judging the debate itself, I would say it was pretty close. I still like "my guy" immensely more, because his general philosophies are more in line with mine, which are NOT in line with the current administration's (which McCain seems to want to follow).
However, McCain NEEDED to win this, and didn't, so I think that the after-effects will favor Obama.
Loved the "I have a bracelet too" moment. Didn't care to hear about McCain's "war stories," which made me feel as though I was listening to my grandfather. However, IF McCain were to win...at LEAST he's more intelligent than George Bush and KNOWS his geography and important players out in the world! That will be a refreshing change either way...
Did not see it as I was at Fenway watching my team purposefully cede the division. However, I am going to tell you the mother of political conversations which I had on the subway this am on my way out to pick up my car from the dealership. A mid-70s couple in BC gear got on, we chat, they're from Pittsburgh, I thank them for Jason Bay blah blah blah. He talks about getting old, I say my 65th is GWB's last day in office. They are horrified. She says "I never thought I'd live to see the day and actual AFRICAN was president of MY country". I said God Bless Sarah Palin :), they say 'she's such a breath of fresh air and will make a wonderful president'. THAT, my friends, is what people who used to be referred to as 'the fly-over people' think and that is why McCain will win.
Was that a debate? Or two girls at the boutique?
"MY bracelet's sexier than YOUR bracelet!"
Next time: Wet tee shirt wrestling. Obama bitch-slaps McCain with French tips then kisses away the hurt with Cherries-In-the-Snow lipstick.
McCain drives Obabma to frenzied lust as he shimmies in his POW belly chain.
After pole dancing compulsories, both reveal nipple rings and in whose honor they are worn.
First man to put his ankles behind his ears gets the White House.
--Fistinyoface
Fistinyoface, that was actually funny.
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